Everything News Jobs Opportunities Events Products/Services
more
 
About
Go to Home
Sign Up Sign in

The Low Carbon Economy Ltd

21 Apr 2010 02:04:06

Should we be looking beyond electricity in green car design?



Should we be looking beyond electricity in green car design?
Over the last few years, car manufacturers have been working away to create a viable alternative to a petrol-fuelled vehicle. The solution seemed to be the electric car.

Peugeot has recently announced that its electric car, the i0n, is due to go on sale in the UK by the end of the year. Nissan has created the concept car the Leaf, while Renault has been working on the futuristic Twizy concept car, which will soon be entering the virtual world of The Sims.

But behind the scenes researchers in Israel have been working on making hydrogen a viable competitor as an alternative to petrol.

Previous problems identified with hydrogen have been its flammable nature and the difficulty in storing the gas within a vehicle, as it requires large, heavy tanks.

The Israeli scientists believe that they have overcome one of these problems by creating much smaller and lightweight storage containers.

The gas would be stored in a series of very small glass tubes. Almost 400 of these tubes would then be bundled together to create an "array", which is about the size of a drinking straw. Finally, 11,000 of these arrays would be place in the vehicle.

This would take up half the space and weigh half as much as other storage methods, yet still power the vehicle for 240 miles.

So does this mean that manufacturers will all start scrambling to create hydrogen powered cars? The answer is probably not.

Electric cars still have the upper hand when it comes to refuelling, as there is already a national grid established, meaning large amounts will not have to be laid out to create a charging infrastructure.

In addition, car makers will be looking at their profits and will be unwilling to dispose of all the equipment they invested in to produce electric cars before seeing a return.

Hydrogen fuel cells are also often used in electric vehicles to charge batteries and extend the distance they can travel without having to stop. The new research will mean that the two could be able to operate better hand in hand.

Car manufacturers will continue to look at the bottom line, and green enthusiasts will continue to look at the carbon footprint various fuels, but should they also be keeping one eye on hydrogen technology in the coming years?ADNFCR-1235-ID-19733698-ADNFCR


Discussion Thread  

drivin98 wrote:

21 Apr 2010

Hydrogen in glass tubes.

Sounds like crash testing will be a blast!


21 Apr 2010

Hydrogen has to be more viable than resource intensive batteries which have limited mileage and enable the large power companies to retain their supply stranglehold. If electric is the way forward, it will require significantly more infrastructure than is currently available (the grid is unlikley to cope with the addtional demand from 30m (my estimate - may be many more or less) electric cars being plugged in overnight), so providing Hydrogen infrastructure via existing petroleum facilties is not likely to cost any more. If the hydrogen can be supplied form renewables, all the better.


Davejmcg wrote:

23 Apr 2010

electric cars, the future as portayed by many,

problem with batteries, they are fickle, prone to faliure in managed wrongly, dischage too far ou cause irreperable damage.

Hydrogen, much paranoia over safety, less dangerous in vehicle that petrol. The cylineders are designed not to break. HSE would ban petrol if it emerged as a new fuel form today

Stick a fuel cell on board as a battery charger to any electric vehicle you have extened the range but as much as the gas tank you put on. Don't mess with the battery or car managemen regime.

It is easy, safe, hydrogen infrastructure easy, how fast did telecom infrasructure and internet structure go in?


23 Apr 2010

H2 has many issues. Sorage, production, distribution etc .It's just an energy carrier and 90% id made from fossil fiels and it takes 4 times more energy to make ,store, comprress and distribute than electricity.

We already have clean choices for electric right at your home with wind and or solar. The GRID has an excess of electricity at night right now and dumps power every night. Why not chrge efficient vehicles with safe ,long lasting non toxic lithium batteries ? I do right from my solar GRID ties hoem.


aussepom wrote:

25 Apr 2010

Hi,
The answer to the hydrogen and the electric car should be known soon after testing is completed on a new project.
To me the hydrogen car in its present state and even with the nano tube is not viable.
The electric car while it is being ‘recharge’ on electricity being produced by coal or by nuclear energy is not really going to fix the CO2, problem, that is if we have a problem there. To me with information that I have found it is all a rouse to make us pay more taxes in one form or another.
So what about us all generate our own power, not sell it to the money grabbing power companies.
You think that is not possible or a dream, well indications from the testing show me that it is now possible.
The scale is set to generate 6, 15, 20 or 30kW depending on your needs, no fuel, oh another scam, no real. The same process will then be looked at to fit a family size car, not to drive it but to extend or to give the electric drive unlimited range, with no power from the grid to recharge.
I am hoping that there will be no need for the large amount of batteries to give the very high and dangerous voltages that are in the hybrids and the planed ‘all electric’ cars.
You may think that this is a fairy tale, then you will be wrong if later you suddenly see advertising for the P.A.M.M.A.S, a system that would give you power any where you want it.
Regards
Brian Bayliss
Bayliss Controls


26 Apr 2010

The debate as to what will supply our energy for transport in the future should not be seeking the sole or even dominant solution. We have had a long time where the easy answer has been available and this is now changing. Electric cars will increase in number and diversity but will not meet our needs for independent transport across the board. Many considerations will apply and these will be different in various regions. Electric cars will have limitations in battery longevity, cost and vehicle range as well as power supply. The electric car that is ideal for transport around a city such as London will not be suitable for that weekend in Scotland or probably even Wales and with one space to park a car the car selected will have to meet all needs.
Automotive OEMs and governments often do not make sound technology decisions and the GM volt is a good example. Adding complexity to the car will not provide a mass vehicle solution. Light weight, compact, simple and well executed design will provide the best products for the high volume car market. Hydrogen vehicles will play a considerable role tin the mix of vehicles in the future and the simple Pivotal engine with its hydrogen friendly attributes will provide a soultion with wide appeal. www.pivotalengine.com
Yours
Paul Mclachlan


26 Apr 2010

The answer is in fact that all large car manufactures have started scrambling to create hydrogen powered cars and that in fact they are already successfully demonstrating them. Using Hydrogen in ICE faces technical energy efficiency barriers that seem difficult to be resolved. Hydrogen vehicles with a fuel cell on the other hand are in fact also electric vehicles which are very energy efficient, have a normal action radius, normal refuelling times, and zero tailpipe emissions. As for battery electric cars this change to zero emissions will require infrastructure investments: grid upgrades (eventually) or Hydrogen distribution infrastructure. For Hydrogen and battery electric vehicles alike the overall CO2 balance depends on the primary energy used to produce the electricity or the hydrogen. I recommend to read the well to wheel analysis report published on the website of the JRC (CONCAWE). In any event the debate should really not be about "OR" but about "AND": I strongly believe we will need both technologies eventually because both types of vehicles answer to different specific consumer needs.
Yours,

Anthony Brenninkmeijer
Director/ www.fuelcelleurope.org
Partner/ www.hinicio.com


26 Apr 2010

The answer is in fact that all large car manufactures have started scrambling to create hydrogen powered cars and that in fact they are already successfully demonstrating them. Using Hydrogen in ICE faces technical energy efficiency barriers that seem difficult to be resolved. Hydrogen vehicles with a fuel cell on the other are in fact also electric vehicles which are very energy efficient, have a normal action radius, normal refuelling times, and zero tailpipe emissions. As for battery electric cars this change to zero emissions will require infrastructure investments: grid upgrades (eventually) or Hydrogen distribution infrastructure. Hydrogen like battery electric vehicles have an overall CO2 balance that depends on the primary energy used to produce the electricity or the hydrogen. I recommend to read the well to wheel analysis report published on the website of the JRC (CONCAWE). The debate is not about “OR” but about “AND”: I strongly believe we will need both technologies eventually because both types of vehicles answer to different specific consumer needs.
Yours,

Anthony Brenninkmeijer
Director / www.feulcelleurope.org
Partner/ www.hinicio.com


aussepom wrote:

01 May 2010

Hi it seems that you did not understand, quote from above
(The same process will then be looked at to fit a family size car, not to drive it but to extend or to give the electric drive unlimited range, with no power from the grid to recharge.
I am hoping that there will be no need for the large amount of batteries to give the very high and dangerous voltages that are in the hybrids and the planed ‘all electric’ cars.)
the teststing was sucsessful and a full prototype is to be stated shortly, it could vastly extent the range of the electrica car or even give it unlimted range. As for the main object the of the P.A.M.M.A.S, house owners, small bussinesess will benefit from free power, and would be able to clain 'carbon credits' where they are in place, and the carbon emmissions is zero.
Brian Bayliss
Bayliss Controls
Australia


OFG wrote:

21 Apr 2011

development & volume sales of electric vehicles are only just underway. Range & capacity will improve beyond belief over the next few years. The cost of all energy will rise anyway. Like the writer said both technologies will be running as one can forsee a day when electric cars could replace huge numbers of ICE vehicles but it will be a (very) long time before trucks carrying 20 tonne loads around the world every day to provide consumers needs will be able to run on electric only (though one can forsee hybrids coming along in the commercial vehicle world. If you look at the history of the first few years of development of petrol&deisel engined vehicles the developments that took place in a relatively short space of time were amazing.
Just wait & see - continually rising oil prices & the need for companies to make money by selling consumers new vehicles will 'drive' the whole thing along !


19 Dec 2011

I have no idea what the future will bring, but I do foresee yet an energy source not yet thought of. One day we may see waste materials being our most prized energy source and a return of family farms. Methane generators are a reality that have yet to be tapped for their free simple hydrocarbons which can be easily converted to safe natural gasses. Biocombustibles which can replace what the destruction of rain forests has destroyed is a real possiblity. Once people start thinking in terms of natural processes they'll find an answer to cooperating with nature for the benefit of a symbiotic relationship with not only earth but the whole solar system rather than just junking up space with more techno trash.


22 Dec 2011

telecommunting is the best, you can travel at the speed of light with little energy and it's very safe.

next would be a velomobile, an enclosed recumbent bicycle with a small amount of electric assist if needed. http://organictransit.com/models.php

local areas where you work, live and play saves a lot and it good for everyone, you could walk to work.

longer trips and bigger cargo can go by electric. regenerative braking on downhills and stopping can save a lot and solar and wind can power them. V2G Vehicle to GRID can help the GRID when your parked 20+ hour s a day.


22 Dec 2011

It isn't just in Israel that progress on safe and light weight hydrogen storage is being developed. See the following pages of hydrogen fuel news for what is happening in Leuven, Belgium and Oregon, USA:
http://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/porous-material-may-solve-the-problem-of-hydrogen-storage-researchers-say/851582/
http://www.hydrogenfuelnews.com/new-liquid-material-from-university-of-oregon-could-store-hydrogen-gas/851801/
As for distribution and refuelling for ICE hydrogen powered vehicles ITM Power is well on the way to setting this up and have recently been featured on this site for their partnership in the Isle of Wight EcoIsland project.
http://www.itm-power.com/page/27/HFuel.html
http://www.lowcarboneconomy.com/profile/itm_power/_news_and_press_releases/island_smart_grid_hydrogen_energy_storage_project/15704
I look forward to my next car being being powered by hydrogen; also to being able to refuel it locally.




Discussion Thread  

 


The Low Carbon Economy Ltd Community



Related Items From Everyone


  1. Building on the huge success of last year's conference, E.E.L. Events is pleased to announce its...

  2. ITM Power, the energy storage and clean fuel company, announces that it today participated in the...

    20 Jun 2011
  3. LED Tube light Products & Services

    Power 9w to 22wPower 95-105lm/WPower Factor ≥0.85Electrical DataInput Voltage/Frequency...

  4. Britain could be carbon neutral and a net energy exporter by 2050, according to the Liberal...

    22 Aug 2008



Go To Home

Resource Links

We're social: View Available Feeds Find out more! Leave us your feedback

RSS



We appreciate all feedback. Please leave as much or as little as you like about any aspect of this website.

If your message requires a response, please leave your email address.